Is my neighbours' back yard Permaculture?

[pebble]

I also think it's possible to practice the care for people ethic when you don't like them. Caring in that context is about respect for life, not candyfloss.

And if we're talking about what happens after the crash, will we be in a position to avoid/exclude people we don't like if we are dependent on them for food, water, shelter, seed, etc etc? I wonder how many of our current choices about how we engage with people come from a position of priviledge. I'm not saying this is wrong (it may be appropriate at this point in time), just that we may not always be afforded that luxury.

(I don't know anything about the above arguments that happened in another thread btw).

[tinamou]

There's plenty of areas of the world where civilization has already collapsed, and plenty of historical examples.

What happens is rather like the culture re drug dealing. You learn who you can trust. You don't have to like the people you deal with. There's a certain 'honour amongst thieves', and plenty of dishonour as well. The point being, that there's no superior authority ( law, police, ) to appeal to. You have to rely entirely upon your own judgement and whatever power you may have.

It's a fascinating question, though, pebble. Do permaculturalists ( typically educated, sensitive, middle class, ) follow the route of the rich elite, gated communities with wardens ( guards ), to exclude the rabble and provide security ?

I suppose it depends a bit on the location. The pressures are going to be very different in urban centre from remote rural areas.

[JohnB]

We're wandering a bit off topic, so maybe we should get back to it now. Or maybe even start some new topics (or add to existing ones) on some other aspects of permaculture.

[neckie]

Im reminded of the allotments we've all seen that are covered in old carpet, a few crops in weedy beds and a general air of neglect that claim to be organic. It gives other organic gardeners (ie those who know what there doing!) a bad name and gives the chemical old boys an opportunity to dismiss organic growing out of hand. Unfortunately its almost impossible to prevent. There will always be people who claim something is something it definately isn't, as Johns permaculture hedge example shows very clearly. It becomes difficult when a subject isn't easily summed up in a short sentence. I tend to describe p.c as "a design system for sustainable human habitats using natural systems as a model" and then go on to explain that theres an ethical element to it but it doesn't slip off the tongue easily.
At work I really use the word when showing new people around; I prefer to show them the examples and fill in more details over time.